A Conversation for History of the Phalanx
Mr603 Started conversation Aug 26, 2005
Weren't the Misseneans (The Greek Phalanx, paragraph 2, last line) actually called the Mycenaeans?
Asmodai Dark (The Eternal Builder, servant of Howard, Crom, and Beans) Posted Aug 27, 2005
Its a double spelling, and really depends where you look (so whether I've put it as one and the subs changed it, or vice versa). Its like Homoioi and Spartitate, or Phallanxes or Phallanges (hence Phallangites, but ultimately Phallanxes was chosen for the entery as shown).
I think Mycenaeans (from my brief glance) refers to the pre-spartan conquest era (the few nods I found referanced Troy too, suggesting that the Spartans had been allies with there neighbour in earlier centuries and used there sea power, where as after the Spartans had give them a good pasting it became Messanians (can't really support this other then the conquering Homoioi shoving them into the lower caste, and then the native Helots atteming a slang of some sort perhaps?).
How that provides some answers
Gnomon  Posted Jun 18, 2007
No. In fact, the Mycenaeans and the Messenians were two completely separate people. The Mycenaeans were from Mycenae, in the Plain of Argos to the northeast of Sparta, while the Messenians were from Messenia to the west of Sparta.
Asmodai Dark (The Eternal Builder, servant of Howard, Crom, and Beans) Posted Jun 19, 2007
Bloody hell I had to scratch my head for a bit there.
Can you give me a referance for that Gnomon as, at the time, I couldnt find the specifics (and now, cant remember a damn thing)
Gnomon  Posted Jun 20, 2007
The original question was whether "Messenians" in this sentence should actually have been "Mycenaeans":
"This high degree of training was used to great effect by the Spartans, allowing them to conquer their neighbours, the Messenians, and at one point to control much of Greece. "
The Mycenaeans is our name for the Bronze Age civilisation which existed all over the Peloponnese in 2000 - 1200 BC. It is named after Mycenae, which is to the north-east of Sparta, near Nafplio.
Messenia was the area to the west of Sparta, across the Taygetos mountains.
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