A Conversation for The Isle of Man

Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 1

Garigolf

smiley - wah
Firstly, lets forget the words "basically", "technically", "in principle" when dealing with national sovereignty

The IOM entry reads:
"Technically, the island is a 'Crown Dependency',

It IS a Crown Dependency and not technically. You are not "technically" or "basically" married or not. Either you are or you are not

Corrected text: "The Isle of Man is an independent country which is also a Crown Dependency. It has the world's oldest continuously democratic parliament (Tynwald) dating back to 975 AD. The island is thus not subject to the United Kingdom parliament or laws although it does adopt certain laws in the interests of sustaining itself as a small independent country.

>which means that it is independent in some ways and dependent in >others.

What a load of nonsense. A country is a sovereign state and the Isle of Man is independent. .

>The Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom, the European Union or the OECD. It has its own government, its own laws, its own money.

OECD added

>But it shares a ruler (Queen Elizabeth II) with the United Kingdom, >and the British Army is responsible for the defence of the island.

smiley - sadface

NO it does not. We have a "Lord of Mann" presently represented by the Crown (Elizabeth II). We do NOT HAVE A QUEEN

de juris it is the Lord of Mann that defends us. If he/she chooses to utilize the British Army for this purpose then so be it. However, we are part of Europe (like Switzerland) and not British (like Rep of Ireland)

Not only does the Crown defend us but also represents our interests worldwide (we could hardly do that alone with only 80'000 inhabitants).
The UK Immigration Office will not grant a residence visa (e.g. an ancestoral visa based on English grandparents) for the IOM however and grants such on behalf of the IOM after referring back to the IOM first.

All non-Manx require a working permit to take up employment of any kind in the island. This includes persons of Manx heritage who were not BORN IN THE ISLE OF MAN

Country code for the Isle of Man is IM (see http://www.iso.org/iso/country_codes/iso_3166_code_lists/english_country_names_and_code_elements.htm#i..) and currency code is IMP (http://www.lloydstsbcorporatemarkets.com/glossary/currencies.asp). ISO3166 includes the Isle of Man IM as a separate country since 29 March 2006 (also the Bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey). ISO4217 does not have a number for the Isle of Man Pound.


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 2

Gnomon [195]

One of the authors of this Entry [not me] is living in the Isle of Man, so I'd be interested to see what he says about this.


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 3

Garigolf

Hi Gnomon (strange name as I used to be a Gnome of Zurich)

Thks for the feedback. I too live in the Isle of Man, am of Manx heritage but actually born in Lancashire.

I not only stick up for the Isle of Man (without being one of those nationalist pains) but represent it as owner of the IsleofMan Yahoogroup and at Care2.com as co-host of the Isle of Man Ellan Vannin group

As I have a semi legal background (but qualif as FCA) I am used to describing things exactly and not in this modern fuzzy duddy "basically" and "technically" language.

The IOM even today has its bishop as the Bishop of Sodor and Mann - the Sodor being the Su├░reyjar or South Islands from the Norse Kingdom days.
The North Islands were the Shetlands and the Orkneys.

In 1266 at the Battle of Ronaldsway, the Viking Kingdom ended and the IOM was directed (not ruled and not owned) by various Scottish and later English Lords, the latest of which is the Elizabeth II, Lord of Mann. During the time of Lord Derby, the present Castletown Golf Club was partly a racecourse and the term Derby in racing come from there as does the present Derbyhaven naming of the hamlet close by.
The South Islands of the old Manx Kingdom covered the Outer Hebrides, Isles of Skye and Mull and much of Argyle and the Mull of Kintyre and were the bastions of the Norse Vikings for attacking Great Britain from the West.
A map of Sodor can be seen at
http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/parishes/diocese/diocese.htm


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 4

Gnomon [195]

Saying that the UK and the Isle of Man share a ruler is correct, though, isn't it? THe same physical person is both Queen of the UK and Lord of Mann.

And the British Army has been given responsibility for the defence of the Isle of Man.

I can't see why what I said there is a load of nonsense.smiley - erm


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 5

Gnomon [195]

I'm all for sticking up for the Isle of Man, by the way, and if the Guide is inaccurate, we will of course change it. We just have to be happy first as to exactly what should be in it.smiley - smiley


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 6

Pimms

Hi Garigolf smiley - smiley

Interesting suggestions for amendments. I can't claim to be a legal expert, but some of the points you make, while in some cases justifiable, are a little abstruse.

I like the stuff about the Bishop of Sodor and Mann, and South Islands smiley - ok but I thought the stuff on ISO codes for Manx currency beyond the scope of the entry.

"Crown Dependancy" is a legal term likely to be unfamiliar to the majority of readers, and as such can be considered jargon needing further explanation. It seems fair to me to describe this aspect of viewing the Island as 'technical', and the description of the Queen (as Lord of Mann) being ruler (aka Head of State), and British Army (as part of the UK's defence establishment) being responsible for defence of the Island, are reasonable simplifications.

The Manx Government describe the autonomy thus:
"Her Majesty the Queen as Lord of Mann is our Head of State. Her personal representative on the Island is His Excellency the Lieutenant Governor, who is appointed by the Crown for a five-year term.
The Island is a Crown Dependency which, through its ancient parliament, Tynwald, enjoys a high degree of domestic legislative and political autonomy."
As far as defence: "Although the Isle of Man is largely autonomous, the United Kingdom remains responsible for the Island's defence and international relations. EU law has direct application to the Isle of Man only for very limited purposes, in accordance with Protocol 3 to the 1972 Act of Accession." So, the Island is dependant on the UK for its defence > Gnomon 'UK' could replace 'British Army' and the Queen be described as the Lord of Mann.

For more information read here: http://www.gov.im/isleofman/externalrelations.xml - this also clarifies that the Isle of Man *is* part of the OECD, and has been since 1990. Not that I'd heard of the OECD before reading your posting, and like ISO codes is not something I'd rate as of sufficient interest to include in the entry.

You are mistaken to assert that you have to be born on the Isle of Man to be able to work here without a work permit. That would be an oversimplification. I wasn't born on the Island and I don't need one smiley - winkeye Work permits only apply to certain jobs (and there are actually two separate schemes, one for those born within the EU and one for those not), and the definition of Manx Worker (not requiring a permit) allows several ways to qualify - such as living here 5 years, being educated here, being married to a Manx worker, or being the child of someone who was born and lived on the Island for their first five years. (see the Guide to Work Permits pdf on http://www.gov.im/dti/employmentRights/workpermits.xml)

It could well be true that if you weren't born here, some 'true' Manxies may not accept you as Manx no matter how long you live here, but that kind of parochial attitude can be found anywhere in the world with a largely static population, and I don't think is as commonplace on the Island now as it used to be.

Thanks for reading the entry and commenting smiley - ok



Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 7

Gnomon [195]

OK. I've changed that paragraph to:

"The island is a 'Crown Dependency', which means that it is independent in some ways and dependent in others. The Isle of Man is not part of the United Kingdom or the European Union. It has its own government, its own laws, its own money. But it shares a ruler (Elizabeth II) with the United Kingdom (she is Lord of Mann as well as Queen of the United Kingdom), and the Army of the United Kingdom is responsible for the defence of the island."


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 8

Pimms

It could be the Royal Navy or the RAF who comes to our defence too. The UK Government is responsible for our defence.


Isle of Man - entry requires correction

Post 9

Gnomon [195]

OK, now it's "the United Kingdom government is responsible for the defence" with the army link on the word defence.


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