Started conversation May 27, 2002
OH MY.. i've just lost 20 minutes of writing in a cut and paste disaster! >
I've started this as a new conversation because it answers some questions from several previous conversations.
This is all me.. if anyone knows of any very similar er.. things.. I'd be interested.
I make a gift of a conversation that a friend of mine, Harold invented between himself and.. well.. himself..
"So what wonderful things do you have to tell me today, hrm?"
"What would you like to know?"
"Let's start out small.. everything perhaps?.. That sounds like a good place to start. Everything."
"What is your definition of everything?"
"Well... good question.. hrm.."
"OK.. Okay.. everything is.. to start with when you try to put a label on such a concept as everything; it doesn't work, because labeling a thing draws a distinction between it and all the other things. Everything is.. All that is not directly you. Everything includes your brain, your body, it includes your immediate surroundings, what lies beyond the bounds of those surroundings, and what lies beyond what lies beyond those bounds.. all the way up until you reach the edge of your universe. When you reach this point you can no longer talk of things as being 'beyond the bounds of x'. Everything includes all universes and all that the universes exist inside of. It includes all that allows the universes to exist. In short everything includes all that is in a state of existence, and most of the things that aren't."
"... 'All that is in a state of existence, and most of the things that aren't'.. Yet this does not include the direct 'you'. So 'you' doesn't exist?"
"What you're asking me here is: 'who are you'?"
"In a sense, yes, I suppose."
"I am... I am the sum of all the thoughts that I have chosen to be. I am the culmination of all of the perceptions that I have allowed myself to have. Now whether I have allowed myself to have these perceptions because they are reality, or whether I have allowed my self to perceive only the illusions that have fit me, I couldn't tell you. I exist because a group of sensory perceptions seem to be telling me that I am in a place and time which is orientated in a certain manner that appeals to those perceptions, but the perceptions exist because I think that I believe that they are supposed to be here and now, which itself is nonexistent. I have chosen to see my surroundings the way I have seen them... in this way I have created Everything. Because I am the product of my surroundings I have created myself. I am not included in everything because I cannot clearly prove that I exist, nor can I clearly prove that I don't. I am all points in all dimensions that I choose to say that I inhabit."
"You say you cannot prove that you exist.. the phrase 'I think therefore I am' comes to mind.. what does this mean to you?"
"Am I thinking? Perhaps my thoughts are simply your illusion. You, or rather my definition of you has chosen to see me as a thinking being.. So I have thoughts. Your delusion that there are other thinking beings around has caused me to believe that I think. In my definition of you, I have chosen to allow you to perceive me. Since your perception of me is all that I am to you, I have indirectly defined myself by attempting to create you. I define your definition of me, thus indirectly defining myself and creating you in an attempt to do so... and visa versa."
"That's all very interesting. Honestly, however, I don't think I can take much more of this."
"Well go away then."
"Okay then. .. . I will."
"Come back later, if there even is such a thing. We'll have coffee."
"Perhaps then we can talk about exactly how it is you got here?"
"Well, that depends on your definition of Here."
"Well, we'll have to talk about that later."
The reason this post is called 'collective solipsism' comes from the paragraph that begins "Am i thinking?".
The alternate explaination of this paragraph is as follows:
Entity A is defined by his perceptions. Entity A is also defined by the way other entities perceive him.
Entity A defines Entity B by perceiving him in an attempt to further define himself. Reality is thus created by numerous entities, all stemming from an origional Entity, God, if you will, who is divided and divided again into other entities in an attempt to further justify it's existance.. The mind does not have to be more or less complex then the universe.. the mind IS the universe and thus is equally complex. Those things which are beyond our comprehension, yet exist.. such as those things beyond our little corner of the universe, are defined by Entity C, which was defined by Entity B, but has no contact with Entity A, who started the whole mess.
Reality consists of many branches of the same Entity which form a collective consciousness... i'm drifting off.. What's happening here is that I am analyzing Harold's thoughts with Bob's mind.. and they are mixing together and the more this happens.. the less i will make sense. I will let you go from here, take what you will from all of the previous, leave the rest, of course..
-Bob, of the "there" dimension. (is not having a good cut and paste day)
I did not spell check this for fear of further copying disasters so bear with me
PS. i realize parts of this are funny.. but it's not intended that way.. I believe every word... somewhat