A Conversation for The Spanish Inquisition

Peer Review: A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 1

Icy North

Entry: The Spanish Inquisition - A620083
Author: Sidney Kidney, AKA Gruby Ben, friend of Dirty Den - U47460

I came across this little gem while searching for links. It was written by Sidney Kidney (missing, presumed Elvised).

I've been discussing it with laconian, and some of the facts in it will need verifying - so please add your comments and suggestions for improvement...

smiley - cheers Icy


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 2

laconian

Discussed here: F6924390?thread=5202796

Some stuff I thought relevant from that thread:

My knowledge is fairly limited, but I don't think Tomas can be credited with setting up the Inquisition.

>>After a bit of string pulling with Pope Sixtus IX, he set up what was to be known as "The Spanish Inquisition"<<

He was the first Inquisitor General, and reported to the Spanish monarchs about the state of the faith in the country, but it really was King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella who pulled the strings with the Pope.

As for the description of torture, I can't really help, I'm afraid. With the mention of 'day one' etc. it sounds like there was a prescribed routine for the torture, which sounds fanciful, but I'm not expert.

There are a couple of emotive bits in there:
>> the Inquisitors would delight in dripping hot wax into the fresh holes left by the missing teeth.<<
I suppose it depends how you stand on how much EG entries should be 'sanitised', but can we say they 'delighted' in the torture? The official line was that, as pious Christians, they didn't want to do it at all.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 3

Mr603

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Good entry.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 4

Mr603

Well, by good I mean horrifying, but I did enjoy it. Spotted a few errors that I'll get back to you with.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 5

Elentari

Great find! I shall have to come back to this, but it might be early next week before I can read it.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 6

Mina

Don't scare me like that! I thought Sid was back.

If you want this in the Edited Guide you will have to copy the text and create a new entry, take this one out of PR and submit that one. As no-one but Sid can edit this there is no way to deal with any reviewers feedback.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 7

Icy North

Hi Eco smiley - smiley

Why do we have the facility to submit other entries, in this case?

If there are only a few comments, I thought it could be a Subeditor job to make the changes.

smiley - cheers Icy


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 8

Mina

We have this facility because it wasn't very well thought out I'm afraid.

There are more than a few comments, I have doubts that this entry is ready for the Edited Guide as it is. The Sub shouldn't be expected to have to remove all of the inappropriate comments Sid added to the entry as well as making all the changes from Peer Review.

Some comments on the actual content:

The entry should explain what a heretic was - ie a holder of an unorhadox opinion, which is clearly nothing that deserves torture, mutilation and death. The entry should also explain that the Spanish Inquisition was all about finding and murdering heretics, and for what reasons which this entry doesn't actually do.

It also doesn't explain that the main targets were Jews, and also people who had converted to Christianity from Judaism but were suspected of secretly still practising the Jewish faith.

This entry seems more concerned with listing types of torture rather than being about the Spanish Inquisition itself, not all kinds are included, and I've not seen this 'day one' etc anywhere else but here so can't say whether it's a true picture of what happened or not.

I've got lots of info about the Inquisition, although not specifically the Spanish Inquisition, but this entry doesn't really do it justice.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 9

Mina

Having just read laconian's entry, that looks more like the sort of thing we should have in the Guide.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 10

Icy North

I'll leave it for you Scouts to decide. Let me know if you want it removed (as I appear to have access to the link to do that).

smiley - cheers Icy


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 11

Mina

You can wait for a Scout if you like, but you've submitted an entry that is not ready for the Edited Guide as it stands and you can't expect the Subs to appreciate being asked to rewrite an entry, do the missing research and deal with all the reviewers points!

If you don't want to do it at least take it out of PR so someone else can have a chance to improve it first.

You didn't know Sid, but I do, and it's extremely possible that he just made all this up for a role playing game and never intended it to be part of the Edited Guide. He never submitted it himself, after all.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 12

Icy North

OK, it's been removed.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 13

Icy North

I still welcome opinions, comments and suggestions on what this entry would need to make it suitable for the Edited Guide, even though this cannot now take place in Peer Review.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 14

laconian

I don't think it's been completely made up, since Tomas de Torquemada's details are pretty correct. But I can't speak for the rest smiley - erm. It could have been embellished, I suppose.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 15

Skankyrich [?]

Interesting.

I think a lot of it is unverifiable, but some of it could certainly be included in an EG Entry. Peeling the fact from the legend of the Spanish Inquisition is often awkward.

This is the next step in my History of Spain project, so perhaps I could include some of it in there and credit the original author?

Any thoughts on that?


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 16

Skankyrich [?]

Hmm. Maybe not, reading it in more detail:

'It would appear that his Grandfather had married a Jew.'

This is incorrect for a start. King Fernando's maternal grandfather certainly did marry a Jew, but Torquemada is widely believed to have been a converso - a Jew converted to Christianity. And it was Fernando himself who appealed to the Pope, not Torquemada. If memory serves me correctly, Torquemada only came into it because he was Isabel's confessor.

'It has been estimated that during Tomas de Torquemada's tenure of office over 200,000 souls were tortured and killed.'

By whom? As far as I'm aware, 100,000 people were accused; 12,000 of those were sentenced to death - and only half of those were under Torquemada. Estimates vary widely, but not quite that widely.

So perhaps I'm a little warier than I was a few minutes ago.


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 17

Skankyrich [?]

I presumed that some artistic licence had been used in the descriptions of the interrogations, but I didn't realise quite how much.

A pulley torture was used, but not as described, and waterboarding was common - the description here is actually rather good. the rack was certainly used, but is glossed over here. None of the rest is verifiable at all.

I wonder if any of these methods were used in other countries? I know little about other European Inquisitions, but I understand that the German and French versions were actually far more violent.

In answer to your question in post 13, Icy, I think the answer is simply 'researching and rewriting' smiley - sadface


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 18

Icy North

OK, thanks for looking, Rich. It's not an area I know a lot about, so I'll leave it be. Of course if Sidney returns, he now has all this feedback to help him get it into the EG. smiley - ok


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 19

Sidney Kidney, AKA Gruby Ben, friend of Dirty Den

Ah... You have ripped me to shreds! And I thought I was doing such a good job. Ok, where do I start?


A620083 - The Spanish Inquisition

Post 20

Icy North

Good to see you back, Sidney smiley - smiley

I really enjoyed reading your entry, and would love to see it in the Edited Guide, but it may take a bit of verification work to get it through Peer Review.

Some of the researchers who posted above are still around, including Linda (aka Mina aka Eco), and they may still be subscribed here. Skankyrich isn't around much these days.

I'd see what you can do to address the points above. or alternatively, it may be quicker to just submit it to Peer Review and get the opinions of the current Scouts.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

smiley - cheers Icy


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