Conversation:

Recently (today) I saw an advert that our church had made. It was...

...uplifting?
...emotional?
...interesting?
...the most crap piece of unimaginative melodrama I have seen for a long time?

I'll give you four guesses, and at least one of them has to include the last one for you to be right.

OK. The ad was bad enough. I mean, what do they want to do, scare people away from the church? That voice was enough to lull me into gently and reverently making the sign of the fingers at the TV set. Are they trying to get our missionaries killed? Do they actually hope I'm still going to proudly announce my religion knowing that people are going to think of /that/? 'Yep, I'm LDS!' 'Oh, you mean the one with the screwy ads on TV?' 'Yes, that's the one!' A suitable reply would be 'Who's falling for that?'

Now, that's not the annoying thing. The annoying thing is that I know they are quite capable of making better ads. They have, in the past, produced masterpieces of intelligent, touching spirituality. They have also made flops of the order of W. J. Sidis' study on streetcar transfers. The fact is, when they write these ads they basically think that telling the truth is enough. They don't think that /presentation/ has anything to do with it.

Let's make an analogy. Say I want to write an essay on Leonardo da Vinci. Now, I could: (a) write down all the most important points about him, spending ages talking about how he was 'way ahead of his time,' replete with unrepentant clichés and moan on and on about how people didn't fully appreciate him; (b) develop my ill-ordered ramblings into something deeply interesting, at once engaging and instantly personal, taking great care to connect, so far as is possible, with my target audience, and more importantly to make them feel a connection with Leonardo, despite how different he might first seem.

Now, which would you choose? I'm guessing that nine out of ten dogs like option (b), which is fine because that's what I'd be selling. But the church have most certainly went with option (a) - they've produced something so dull and uninspiring that it couldn't appeal to anyone in their right minds. I'm guessing that the only people who are going to fall for it ('it' referring to the impression that this is ever going to be successful in bringing people to the church) are Utah Mormons, who are more cliquéy than Eton and are about as representative of the population in general as Superman.

And who do I consult? No offense, but the Prophet and his tow are a bunch of balding, middle-aged men who are so estranged from hardship that they wouldn't know a dole packet if they were given one with the hint 'cash it'. What can you say to them?

And that's it. So far as I can see, they've let some talentless hack produce a two-bit furball of an ad which comes in just above 'eating a jellyfish' on the scale of things likely to make me feel spiritually inclined.

If any of you see it, rest assured that this is /not/ something that I endorse.

- Jordan

LDS ?

Hi Jordan .

Must have missed it old bean. There again yesterday/today is Imbolc, the feast of Brigidh, and as such my attention has been upon my devotions.

Happy Imbolc to you and Hasselfree.

Blessings,
Matholwch the Apostate /|\.

Methinks it means [Church of] Latter Day Saints...

Thank you FwT, the 'C' missing threw me.
Thank you Math for felictations.

No probs!

hi Jordan

Hi Anthea!

You all disappear just as soon as I get online! Am I cursed?

Imbolc? Well, thanks for the sentiment, if the precise semantics are somewhat... unknown...

- Jordan

Bridigh - your patron goddess, right? (Or perhaps 'matron' would be a better word - or neither...)

- Jordan

I was wondering...why would the church have to enter the economic arena of marketing in the first place: why should they have too?

i dont think you should
religion shouldnt come into most things
including stangly what church you go to

e.g. i dont follow a religion but i have been to a roman catholic church
a budist temple and a church of scotland.
-Anthea

Hi Jordan

Yes, Brigidh is one of the gods that I have an ongoing relationship with, but not the only one . Imbolc is dedicated to her and this was one of the festivals 'translated' by early Christians into Candlemas, as indeed was she.

Many pagans choose one or more of the eight major festivals as their special time, Imbolc and Samhain (Halloween) are mine. Not all Druids are sun-worshipping happy solstice hippies .

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Hi Fred .

"why would the church have to enter the economic arena of marketing in the first place: why should they have too?"

Probably because the Christian churches have a divine mission to evangelise and spread The Word. I can't remember the exact verses but I'm sure Alji or Justin could help us there.

A more pressing and recent reason is their steady decline. They are losing market share hand over fist to agnosticism, atheism and in some small part to alternative paths such as mine.

One of the reasons I feel that 'we' pagans are increasing our market share in real terms (and not just in teen witches) is precisely because we don't market ourselves. We don't make extravagant promises and we propose the startling thought that you only get out of the journey what you are prepared to put in .

In a world where we are bombarded with marketing from breakfast to bedtime our approach must seem novel I suppose.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

pagan ....
what is the general meening of the word
to me i am a normal person with no religious preferences
but to others i am a pagan......
why?

Or is it perhaps that they now recognise that the dominant power is not the Word, nor the word, but is the Pound Sign or the Dollar or the Deutschemark, and so they are trying to enter that to regain their market share: even their congregation is referred to in economic terminology!

But does that mean to change this decline is to withdraw from the economic arena? Is this making their decline worse? Are they too 'visible'?

The replacement of standard english with business ideology english means that a group of people is no longer a community or a society, but a market.

I suspect that most people who call you a pagan, Anthea, do it because it's less effort than thinking.

Noggin - in cynical mode

Very cynical: where's that sunny Welsh outlook on life Noggin?

They only maintain it whilst in the presence of .

- Jordan

Hi Anthea .

The term 'pagan' comes from the Latin - 'paganus', meaning 'country-dweller'. It was originally a derogatory term used by sophisticated urban Romans about their country cousins who continued their quaint practice of worshipping the various spirits of nature and the land long after the urbanites converted to the 'more civilised' imperial religions.

When Rome eventually became Christian the term was used to denote those people out in the countryside who clung to their ancient ways. Initially being pagan wasn't a huge problem, but as the Christian stranglehold on Roman life tightened they began to be persecuted.

By the 10th century 'pagan' was almost equal in meaning to 'blasphemer' or 'heretic'. For the next six hundred years anyone who showed any respect to the ancient spirits would be declared pagan and could expect no mercy.

Although the mandatory death sentence was lifted in most western countries in the eighteenth century to be openly 'pagan' was not advisable. Indeed up until 1959 witchcraft was still proscribed on the statute books of the United Kingdom.

In the last twenty or so years the term 'pagan' has been used as a catch-all for every sort of new age movement and/or religion. It is still used by many Christians as a derogatory term who, in their endless paranoia, equate 'paganism' with 'satanism'.

In fact only a small proportion of the pagan movement could correctly be described as 'pagan'. These probably include shamans, the druid orders and various hedge-witches. Wiccans, in all their myriad groupings, Thelemics, Qabbalists, Asatru, most Witches and the rainbow of new age and esotheric groups could not really be considered 'pagan'.

Whether or not you are really pagan is up to you. What other people call you is meaningless without your consent. Why they call you that depends upon their viewpoint. From some it may be a compliment, from others an insult, and from most a misunderstanding of where you stand.

Beauty comes from within and not from the raiments that others dress you in.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Hi Fred .

I think that the decline of the western Christian churches has more to do with them obstinately clinging to a set of dogmatic beliefs that no longer have either state support or social relevance.

With an increasingly well-educated populace it is difficult to maintain that the rules and mores of a band of homicidal, nomadic, desert-dwelling hebrews are just the ticket for living in the twenty-first century.

Unfortunately some churchmen have noticed the success of market-led, populist political parties, such as New Labour. As a result they believe that if good marketing can refurbish the worn-out cliches of socialism and make them shiny and desirable, then the same can be done for their dogma.

The lack of wisdom in this approach can be seen if you compare the ideals and goals of New Labour now with that of the founders of the British Labour Movement. Tony's cronies have won power, but lost the plot. The most left wing party in the UK now is Plaid Cymru (the Welsh Nationalist party for our overseas readers). Weird or what?

If these churchmen succeed in their rebranding what will happen to Christianity? Will sermons be guided by congregation surveys and the message of Christ amended by focus groups?

This is causing considerable disillusionment amongst ordinary Christians, as well it might, and driving many into the more right wing groups where at least they still feel in touch with their theology and are less likely to be led to compromise their principles. And the more polarised and mutually hostile the different market segments of Christianity become, the weaker the movement as a whole becomes. No-one wants to join a theology riven by civil war.

I really don't think money has anything to do with it, but the language of money and the marketplace is becoming the Newspeak of the twenty-first century.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.