First Cause

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Main Page . Personal Experience . Prayer and Miracles . Scripture . Design (Telology) . First Cause . Morality . Suffering (The Problem of Evil) . Parsimony . Prudential Arguments (Pascal's Wager)

This argument claims that:

(1) Everything that exists has a cause

(2) The Universe exists

(3) Therefore the Universe has a cause (from 1 and 2)

(4) Nothing can cause itself

(5) Therefore the Universe was caused by something outside itself (from 3 and 4)

(6) Only God can exist outside the Universe

(7) Therefore God created the Universe (from 5 and 6)

(8) Therefore God exists

The first problem is that this means that God must have had a creator (from 1 and 8) that cannot be himself (from 4). Furthermore, 1 is undermined by modern physics, e.g. vacuum fluctuations. The argument can be rephrased in various ways, all of which fail for similar reasons.

Current Points

[In order to disbelieve in God, you must believe that] its perfectly possible for a vast universe to suddenly come into existence out of nothing... - michae1

Yes, it is clearly possible for a vast universe to have come into existence from nothing (unless it came from something else, or has existed for all time) since one exists. As we've pointed out time and again, this is true *whether or not* you believe in God. I thought you'd accepted that. - Giford

if there is no creator then you must be saying that one day, millions and millions of years ago there was nothing, that 'nothing' exploded somehow and then there was a vast universe. - michae1

Ignoring the fact totally that your god had to come from somewhere..and if he didn't and has always existed(the normal Christian response) then why can't the building blocks of the universe always existed? - 3Dots

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